Clay’s Karma Med / Large Creek Boat Review by Clay Wright | Dec 25, 2012 | Creeking, River Running, Whitewater | 10 comments Karma Review: The high pitched patter of the rain turns to a lower, rumbling thunder that just keeps rolling along until it’s drowned out by the splash of the gutter’s overflow against the backdoor. So much for sleep tonight. As you scroll down the gage pages waiting for dawn’s opportunities, the last thing you want to worry about is what boat to paddle. How’s your Karma? Karma Sunshine Left with Clay Wright by Curtis England As someone who’s been paddling a Hero, Super-hero since I’m a little ‘in between’ sizes, Villain S and Zen 75 since I want a planing hull but also like a full on creek boat, I’m ready for a single boat to travel with that does a little bit of everything so I can obsess more on where I paddle than what. My size: 165 lbs, 5’9”, 30” inseam, size 11 shoe Testing Grounds: Russel Fork 7x, Green River Narrows 5x, Mill Creek WV 5x (12”, 10”, 5”), Mann’s Creek WV 0”, South suck 2x, Suck Creek 5x, Great Falls Rock Island 3x I’ll compare primarily to the Villain S – which the Karma is most like: Strengths: speed: acceleration, cruising, and top end; carving, plane-over distances, hole punching, imperviousness to boils and seams, bow rocker, surfability (front and side). Karma boofing left of Warm Hole Falls, Great Falls Rock Island TN 8000 Weaknesses – lower knee position so if you like to sit up on a Sweet Cheeks 200 it’s a tighter fit The Karma’s been challenging me to find it’s weaknesses – which I’m normally really good at – so I’ve continued to paddle it for 2 months to write a more balanced review. Yet after all these paddling trips I continue to be impressed condition after condition at this boats perfect balance of a fast, floaty planing hull that refuses to trip me up in the mank and impacts landings somewhere between the Villain S and Hero. You feel the speed from the first stroke – as well as the top end, yet it’s almost as easy to boof as the Villain and so easy to keep the bow up no matter what your angle of descent. The primary stability is on par with the S yet the secondary stability approaches that of the Hero. Part of that is the increased volume and size… Karma Medium is a bigger, longer boat than the Villain S despite the cockpit rim feeling about the same ‘fit’. This slightly larger platform feels even larger in turbulent waters as the flatter hull just ignores crazy water like below 2nd Drop of Triple Drop on Russel Fork, letting you paddle across seams and boils instead of getting pushed in circles. That amazing strength of the Zen comes through despite the narrower hull and taller deck. Thankfully, the Karma planes without the usual drawbacks. Soft landings off Mill Creek Falls by Dena Smith Some planing hull river-runners ‘tripped up” in the manky sections and landings can be brutal. So I deliberately chose some mankier sections to paddle: Mill at 5” and South Suck at LOW flow. While the hull can ”grip” the flat bedrock more easily than a round hull, it also rides a bit higher than the Villain S and never tripped me up. I think the quicker spinnability helped me hit most trip-up rocks straight and put me into the hundreds of slots of Mann’s Creek despite the extra speed I carried into them. Mill Creek Falls and Rock Island’s 20’er gave me some waterfall testing grounds and the Karma outperformed expectations. I could plug deep with a 70 degree tuck or stomp down at 60 for a 3’ deep bottom turn on par with the Villain. Only surprising because of how much more surface-oriented the Karma is than the Villain on slopers or when coming down with some forward speed. Coming down hot, the Karma turns the speed of descent into downstream momentum, accelerating across holes or pools and keeping you high and dry above it. So much easier to avoid the ‘stern dip to stall” landing profile of most kayaks dropping in at a 45 degree angle, allowing you to punch stiffer holes or choose shallower landing zones once you figure out how it works. Surfing: It’s no Zen … I won’t be hitting Helix’s or clean-spinning Garb but front-surfing and side surfing are much more stable and fun in more places than either the Villain or the Hero designs. Karma sub 5 minutes, Clay Wright Green Race 2012 by Tyson Bevirt Sizing: I paddled the Karma Lg whenever my Md was being demo’d as it’s still a pretty fun, easy to paddle boat despite it’s size. This is a big difference from the Villain or Mega-rocker! While I predict heavier paddlers will still love it, you no longer have to have a 36” inseam to grip the thigh braces or put the boat on edge. Since I’m not a fan of longer boats, I think I would choose the Md for all conditions over the Lg – even racing or single overnights – as I just don’t feel my weight translates that extra length into speed and the Md is plenty floaty for my 165 lbs. While I put 175 as near max for full-on creeking a Villain S, I would go near 190 in the Karma Md. Overall – combines the floaty, hard-carving, instantly correctable benefits of a planing hull (without the drawbacks) and adds turbo-power acceleration boost and extra top-end speed. Then provides a funner surfing experience to boot. EJ n Nick South Suck-cess, smooth runs through the mank in Karma 10 Comments Tony Dyrsmid on December 25, 2012 at 9:52 pm Thanks Clay, very informative. I’m loving my Zen 75 too much to even thinking of switching. Reply clayw on December 25, 2012 at 11:41 pm No problem Tony! The Zen is a GREAT River runner that can Creek really well – Bear at low water, Mill Homestake… no problems. The Karma is more of a ”full-on” creeker for when you’ll be creeking beyond your levels or just want a more forgiving creeker and willing to sacrifice some surfing, planing, and speed. So this review is about being stoked that the Karma sacrifices a lot less than we used to when we go to a ”full-on” creeker. EJ and David learned a lot from the Zen… so did we. I’ve got a Zen 75 on my car still, heading to the ocean and it will be far funner surfing waves yet still able to hit Bear on the way back if it runs… Clay Reply Marco on January 27, 2013 at 8:34 pm Hello I’m an Italian kayaker. I have a villain L I’m very handy. Today it is broken!!!!!! I’m planning to buy a karma l. In Italy there is no test jackson kayaks. I’m looking for a stable boat both primary and secondary as the villain. I would faster and keep better trajectory line. I explain this sentence? “Weaknesses – lower knee position so if you like to sit up on a Sweet Cheeks 200 it’s a tighter fit” I like the boats in which the knees are bent and tall, as the villain L Thanks Marco anceschi italy Reply Clay Wright on March 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm Hey Marco! The KArma L is a really big boat – so the ”fit” might compare to that of the Villain or at least close enough for most people even while the knees are a touch lower in the Medium for it’s size difference to the Villain S. The primary stability should be on par, the secondary should be better than the Villain. Faster, harder carving, planes straighter and easier, harder rails for carving. The sentence means when you switch you will notice the knees are different from your Villain. But now I’m sitting on the same amount of sweet cheeks I did in my Villain S in my Karma md. When I wrote that I was coming from a Hero and Super-hero which are higher knees than the Villain design and the Super-hero in particular is a BIG boat for me. Hope this helps! Clay Reply Todd on February 11, 2013 at 2:00 pm clay great write up. When you say 190 max for full on creeking is that with or with out gear? A few of us have been trying to figure out Jackson sizing compared to a few other shapers, and the question always comes up ” do they mean weight in my skivvies or fully loaded up with dry suite and safety gear”? Deciding between the medium and the large, thanks for all the help. Reply Stephen Wright on February 13, 2013 at 12:53 am Todd, Weight ranges mean how much YOU weigh. We’re assuming that the gear is extra. Now if you plan to paddle the boat loaded down with overnight gear often, then maybe consider sizing up if you’re on the fence. Stephen Reply Matt on July 12, 2013 at 2:10 pm Clay, I really like my large Karma. However, I am now on my 3rd one. The first 2 both developed a huge bulge right under the seat. It started very quickly and just got worse and worse. The JK warranty team has been great, and the new boat they sent me even has a few extra pounds of plastic. I’ve paddled the brand new boat for a few days, and I can already see the bulge starting under the seat. I really don’t want this one to deteriorate like the first 2. I thought you might have some suggestions. I would appreciate any help. Reply Scott on October 1, 2013 at 6:03 am Hi Love all your posts, I have learned so many things that have made a huge difference in my paddling! Just wanted to know if you take the seat pad out that comes with the Karma when you use a Sweet Cheeks 200? I have been using a SC 100 over top of my regular seat pad in my Zen 65, since reading your post about the sweet cheeks 200, I sure wish someone would have told me about them from the get go! It has made major difference for me, now my hands do not bash the sides of the boat, and the extra leverage feels like a turbo boost. Thank you! Scott Reply Harry on April 30, 2015 at 12:14 pm I’m 5’11” Size EU 46 feet. At 96kg I bought a SH. It gave me the confidence to move up to grade 4. I’ve since lost a bit of weight (down to 80kg) and started using a Hero up to easier grade 4 but still want something bigger for harder stuff. I sit on Sweet Cheeks 200 in the SH but it’s beginning to feel too big. How does the medium Karma compare to the hero and SH. Reply Clay Wright on May 15, 2015 at 2:44 pm Hey Harry! The Karma Md is right between the Hero and Super-hero so it’s a great fit for me at 170 even with lots of gear but much more comfortable than the Super-hero which is just too big for my body. Love the Hero but it’s a small boat for me. At 96 kg the SH was a better choice but at 80 kg you’re right on target for the Karma Md. Enjoy! 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Tony Dyrsmid on December 25, 2012 at 9:52 pm Thanks Clay, very informative. I’m loving my Zen 75 too much to even thinking of switching. Reply
clayw on December 25, 2012 at 11:41 pm No problem Tony! The Zen is a GREAT River runner that can Creek really well – Bear at low water, Mill Homestake… no problems. The Karma is more of a ”full-on” creeker for when you’ll be creeking beyond your levels or just want a more forgiving creeker and willing to sacrifice some surfing, planing, and speed. So this review is about being stoked that the Karma sacrifices a lot less than we used to when we go to a ”full-on” creeker. EJ and David learned a lot from the Zen… so did we. I’ve got a Zen 75 on my car still, heading to the ocean and it will be far funner surfing waves yet still able to hit Bear on the way back if it runs… Clay Reply
Marco on January 27, 2013 at 8:34 pm Hello I’m an Italian kayaker. I have a villain L I’m very handy. Today it is broken!!!!!! I’m planning to buy a karma l. In Italy there is no test jackson kayaks. I’m looking for a stable boat both primary and secondary as the villain. I would faster and keep better trajectory line. I explain this sentence? “Weaknesses – lower knee position so if you like to sit up on a Sweet Cheeks 200 it’s a tighter fit” I like the boats in which the knees are bent and tall, as the villain L Thanks Marco anceschi italy Reply
Clay Wright on March 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm Hey Marco! The KArma L is a really big boat – so the ”fit” might compare to that of the Villain or at least close enough for most people even while the knees are a touch lower in the Medium for it’s size difference to the Villain S. The primary stability should be on par, the secondary should be better than the Villain. Faster, harder carving, planes straighter and easier, harder rails for carving. The sentence means when you switch you will notice the knees are different from your Villain. But now I’m sitting on the same amount of sweet cheeks I did in my Villain S in my Karma md. When I wrote that I was coming from a Hero and Super-hero which are higher knees than the Villain design and the Super-hero in particular is a BIG boat for me. Hope this helps! Clay Reply
Todd on February 11, 2013 at 2:00 pm clay great write up. When you say 190 max for full on creeking is that with or with out gear? A few of us have been trying to figure out Jackson sizing compared to a few other shapers, and the question always comes up ” do they mean weight in my skivvies or fully loaded up with dry suite and safety gear”? Deciding between the medium and the large, thanks for all the help. Reply
Stephen Wright on February 13, 2013 at 12:53 am Todd, Weight ranges mean how much YOU weigh. We’re assuming that the gear is extra. Now if you plan to paddle the boat loaded down with overnight gear often, then maybe consider sizing up if you’re on the fence. Stephen Reply
Matt on July 12, 2013 at 2:10 pm Clay, I really like my large Karma. However, I am now on my 3rd one. The first 2 both developed a huge bulge right under the seat. It started very quickly and just got worse and worse. The JK warranty team has been great, and the new boat they sent me even has a few extra pounds of plastic. I’ve paddled the brand new boat for a few days, and I can already see the bulge starting under the seat. I really don’t want this one to deteriorate like the first 2. I thought you might have some suggestions. I would appreciate any help. Reply
Scott on October 1, 2013 at 6:03 am Hi Love all your posts, I have learned so many things that have made a huge difference in my paddling! Just wanted to know if you take the seat pad out that comes with the Karma when you use a Sweet Cheeks 200? I have been using a SC 100 over top of my regular seat pad in my Zen 65, since reading your post about the sweet cheeks 200, I sure wish someone would have told me about them from the get go! It has made major difference for me, now my hands do not bash the sides of the boat, and the extra leverage feels like a turbo boost. Thank you! Scott Reply
Harry on April 30, 2015 at 12:14 pm I’m 5’11” Size EU 46 feet. At 96kg I bought a SH. It gave me the confidence to move up to grade 4. I’ve since lost a bit of weight (down to 80kg) and started using a Hero up to easier grade 4 but still want something bigger for harder stuff. I sit on Sweet Cheeks 200 in the SH but it’s beginning to feel too big. How does the medium Karma compare to the hero and SH. Reply
Clay Wright on May 15, 2015 at 2:44 pm Hey Harry! The Karma Md is right between the Hero and Super-hero so it’s a great fit for me at 170 even with lots of gear but much more comfortable than the Super-hero which is just too big for my body. Love the Hero but it’s a small boat for me. At 96 kg the SH was a better choice but at 80 kg you’re right on target for the Karma Md. Enjoy! Clay Reply
